User talk


Hi, welcome to WoTMUD Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Mobs/Levels 41 to 50 page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Russ3Z (talk) 10:59, January 5, 2016 (UTC)

a baby grolm

Thank you for checking numerous mob levels. I'm not sure if you're aware, however, but when using the scalp cost method, the minimum cost for any scalp is 80 crowns, so it is really only useful for mobs of level 17 or above.

If you used another method, please ignore this, otherwise bear in mind it could be any level from 1 to 16.

Thanks again! Russ3Z (talk) 01:34, January 29, 2016 (UTC)

Ooh thanks, I had forgotten about that limit, my bad!

Nivwot (talk) 21:39, March 16, 2016 (UTC)

More mob loads thoughts

I just saw your addition of the Paishain smob and it got me thinking. I do like how you've shown that certain items load in her pack as opposed to being worn (or in inventory). It strikes me that it might be useful to be able to show that. Right now, as I just mentioned on my talk page conversation, I am overall in favor of using a MobLine template system since that allows queries from the item pages. Very powerful and useful, but limited so far.

For the moment, that template just gives a blanket "Loads" format, without distinguishing if an item is worn, held, in a pack, in inventory, or (and this might be even trickier) in a locked chest and/or separate room. One simple way to do it is just to add some text underneath and after the template, explaining that "xxx and yyy load in the smob's pouch/sheath/whatever" or "the copper key loads in her pouch and is used to unlock the chest containing zzz and aaa". See Alamir the Horse Trader for an example. In some ways this might be the most sensible, since someone viewing an item page just really wants to know which mob/smob loads it, without needing to see additional info on the item page about whether it's inventory or chest or what.

The next-simplest way, perhaps, is to add something like a "Notes" field to the MobLine template, where you can add comments like "loads in belt pack" or "loads in locked chest" for relevant items. This could then be shown on the item page easily enough with the MobLoads template, if we decide it is useful there.

There may be other options but these come to mind. What are your thoughts? Also, I have not yet thought of what to do about multiple loads (maybe 2 lanterns, or 2 wristbands) or how best to handle coins (I'd rather not have multiple pages for each coin amount/type, but in the future it might be nice to have a money-making guide which shows which mobs/smobs load the most coins. Any thoughts there?

Thanks again for your input. Russ3Z (talk) 14:09, March 22, 2016 (UTC)

An added Notes field like that would be useful sometimes, but often would be just empty... I considered adding a second table for container loads, or for when there's an additional load in another room (like Lord Meneril, with the separate box load). Alternatively, if there was some way to add a sub-table, or a set of collapsible rows inside the MobLoad table, we could list them there? But implementing that is beyond my WikiKnowledge right now.
For now I've reformatted the Paishain article into MobLines using data from my last few loads to see how that looks. I've called objects "Standard" if they seem to be her vanilla base load items that sometimes get replaced with a higher-end item, and "Sometimes" if something just fails to appear at times (ie no neck item at all in some loads), and "Rare" for high-end objects that displace her base load. I've dumped the individual data in the Discussion page for now, in case there turns out to be some pattern of items loading together.Nivwot (talk) 09:22, March 23, 2016 (UTC)
Good work. I agree with your thoughts on the "Notes" field for the most part. It might be nice to have some sort of sub-table for the MobLine templates, but for now your separate versions work. I tested this by adding the MobLoads template to the a sparkling crimson ruby page, and it looks like it doesn't cause any problems. For the short term, doing separate instances of the MobLine tables like you did will work, but I'll think about some way to make it a bit better later.
Also, have a look at that page and let me know how you feel about the MobLoads template. I'm frankly not sure if my including the mob's level is important for Smobs especially, since much more can influence the difficulty. The same might go for the "Type" field which I'm populating with the mob's type from the infobox. What do you feel would be useful to show on this, other than the mob's name and the item's load rarity on it? I've considered certain things like whether it's an "innocent" mob, but innocent for one side is a target for the other. Bear in mind I plan to eventually cover every mob on here, ideally, not just Smobs, and I'm not sure how that might work out yet.
The Standard/Sometimes/Rare thing works for now, though in the future I'd like to replace it with a percentage based on an input form...but that's a long-term project. One thing we might want to do when each load is added to a talk page, for now, is add the date. One problem with eq databases is sometimes imms change the loads, and the information becomes outdated...but it's hard to tell when. If we at least add a timestamp of sorts, for now we can manually review data and see if a big change was made.
Anyway, long story short, for now this is good stuff. I'm glad to have the help here, so keep up the good work and let me know how I can help. Russ3Z (talk) 16:23, March 23, 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, your automatic DB querying sure will save a lot of work on item pages. I'm totally open to changing those Rarity classifications, they're just a placeholder because I didn't like saying "Always" or "100%" for an item like, say, Paishain's red shirt, since it sometimes gets switched out for a jerkin, etc.
Maybe the Mobloads template could indicate whatever's in the "Special" box, so it would tell if it was a Smob, or a city head, trainer, LS friendly, DS friendly, etc? I think it looks fine for now though.
Agreed that Date is very important for tracking loads. Also, any automated smob load accumulator would have to ensure that the submitter checked every single container, since people might overlook stuff like, say, the jeweled dagger that loads in Meneril's boots, or some other obscure container.Nivwot (talk) 07:05, March 24, 2016 (UTC)
The rarity types are probably fine for now. As for the "Special" box, eventually I want to redo the mob infoboxes anyway, so I'm not sure about the future of that field. I'll post some potential thoughts on that infobox's talk page in a few days when I have some time.
As for LS/DS friendly and such, I do wonder if there is a difference between being aligned with SS, for instance, and being aggro to LS/DS. Conversely, a mob might be aggro to DS without actively assisting LS/SS and so forth. It would be nice to capture that behavior somehow.
Good points about loads in containers. It will be very hard to ensure that everything is always checked. I'm not sure what to do about that yet, but at least for now the way you're making subsections for containers seems to work well enough. Russ3Z (talk) 18:55, March 26, 2016 (UTC)

MobLines change

I've changed the template, and am in the middle of changing over all pages that use it (~60) as we speak, so if things start looking weird, don't worry (hopefully). Russ3Z (talk) 22:31, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Wow, nice work updating all of them! Now to see what's been changed by the weapon updates. Nivwot (talk) 03:24, April 7, 2016 (UTC)


Going to post this here and on your page as well. I'd like to ask you to not let the actions of one person turn you off from something you enjoy.

Imms are people, and I've had bad experiences with some myself, but I've learned to try to just ignore the bad apples and do what I like.

Your contributions here have been extremely valuable, and I'd hate to lose your help, to say nothing of having the game lose a good person. Take a little time off if you need, but I do hope you'll come back. Russ3Z (talk) 23:06, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Welcome back, look forward to getting back to working on the zone pages some myself :) Medakan (talk) 09:11, March 12, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks!Nivwot (talk) 21:19, March 13, 2019 (UTC)